Twenty some years ago my good friend Mike got the news that his mom had been murdered. She still lived in the farm house he grew up in and lived alone. A local man knew this and decided to rob her one night. The result was mom dead and the man in jail. Mike went to the trial and was given the opportunity to speak to the man who murdered his mother. We asked if he laid into him. Mike looked at us and said no. Mike told the man that Jesus still loved him and that he, Mike, forgave him.
After 20 plus years of walking with Jesus, I’m still not sure I have that forgiveness in me and never want to find out if I do.
I have been thinking about this very topic incessantly. And the conclusions I am starting to draw (ones very similar to yours) leads me to a God that is....well, God's ways DEFINITELY aren't my ways. Not as to say "God definitely doesn't sin like me...swear, drink, etc.", but that I definitely do not lot and forgive like good does. But...that's what I am called to do if I allow myself to become whole. And that is amazing and terrifying and....anyway. Really enjoyed this post.
This is something I’ve only begun to glimpse in the last 5-10 years. And forgiveness is harder than I realized, but also more freeing, because I’m really putting it into God’s hands instead of thinking there’s something I can or should do to “make it right.”
Trey, this is really helpful! I started struggling and basically not believing in the penal substitution theory since I became a Christian, but I never thought about not being able to forgive a paid debt. It sure makes sense when you think of it that way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and wisdom!
I grew up under the PSA theory and it's practically embedded in my DNA, you might say. Truly, until a few years ago, I did not know it had a name, nor did I know that there were other theories (Christus Victor, etc.) out there. You don't know what you don't know, you know? I have never heard or read anyone explain forgiveness/paying a debt the way you just did, and while it makes sense, I can't help but struggle with all of it. PSA *is* a very narrow view of things, but I wonder if there isn't a bit of it that is still true. I used to wonder, as a child, how Jesus could have died "for my sins" when I wasn't alive yet to commit them (I was a very literal, logical child). I think this was one barrier to faith for me, even though I had prayed "the prayer" many times, so I could be safe from going to hell. I also didn't feel like God loved me, even though that's what I was told. Fast forward to my early 30s, and I was at work one day, listening to Chuck Swindoll, and I can't even tell you what he was saying, but suddenly I felt as if a knife had plunged into my soul. I was walking from my desk to my lab bench and it literally stopped me in my tracks. "My sin, it was MY sin... I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry" was all I could say. Then sometime soon after I heard an illustration that Erwin Lutzer used to describe what faith is (which I had never really understood). He said to imagine a man walking a narrow mountain path, slipping and falling and grabbing onto a tree root. Now he's hanging there over a sheer drop, can't let go, can't climb up. Hopeless, but hanging on. An angel appears and says, "Do you believe I can save you?" and he sees the strength and power of this being and says, "yes." "Do you believe I *will" save you?" -- and he sees the love in the angel's eyes, and he says, "yes." The angel says, "then let go of the branch." That is faith - to let go of trying to do/be/perform in such a way as to save yourself, because you can't. And I finally understood. So, you see, my journey has included an understanding that repentance (turning from) my sin is important, because sin and evil cost Jesus his life, and having faith that He will forgive me (and I know He loves me), and that I can just let go of trying so hard, is necessary. I don't know if my rambling story makes any sense. I can see your point though, and I will keep thinking about it. Thank you.
Psychologists talk about the decision to forgive vs. actually having forgiven. Someone can say (decide) “I forgive you” without yet having done what it takes to actually forgive. In some of the “heroic” examples of forgiveness, I wonder if we’re observing a decision, but assuming we’re observing the end of a process (rather than the beginning of one).
Thank you for this post. Parts of it were triggering for me, though. Too many times, survivors are pressured to forgive their abusers and maintain the status quo. What about accountability, safety, and boundaries?
Twenty some years ago my good friend Mike got the news that his mom had been murdered. She still lived in the farm house he grew up in and lived alone. A local man knew this and decided to rob her one night. The result was mom dead and the man in jail. Mike went to the trial and was given the opportunity to speak to the man who murdered his mother. We asked if he laid into him. Mike looked at us and said no. Mike told the man that Jesus still loved him and that he, Mike, forgave him.
After 20 plus years of walking with Jesus, I’m still not sure I have that forgiveness in me and never want to find out if I do.
I have been thinking about this very topic incessantly. And the conclusions I am starting to draw (ones very similar to yours) leads me to a God that is....well, God's ways DEFINITELY aren't my ways. Not as to say "God definitely doesn't sin like me...swear, drink, etc.", but that I definitely do not lot and forgive like good does. But...that's what I am called to do if I allow myself to become whole. And that is amazing and terrifying and....anyway. Really enjoyed this post.
Isn’t Jesus on the cross what ‘eating the debt’ looks like?
I always think of debt forgiveness as a painless accounting decision, something ticked off in a huge organisation where they just won’t notice anyway.
But actually it might mean someone is laid off, or someone has to take a pay cut because there’s no profit.
Or the corner shop owner goes hungry because they have to absorb shortfalls from theft.
The debt has to go somewhere- forgiveness has to hurt someone.
This is really powerful. Thanks for these musings. It give me a lot to chew on, too.
This is something I’ve only begun to glimpse in the last 5-10 years. And forgiveness is harder than I realized, but also more freeing, because I’m really putting it into God’s hands instead of thinking there’s something I can or should do to “make it right.”
Trey, this is really helpful! I started struggling and basically not believing in the penal substitution theory since I became a Christian, but I never thought about not being able to forgive a paid debt. It sure makes sense when you think of it that way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and wisdom!
I grew up under the PSA theory and it's practically embedded in my DNA, you might say. Truly, until a few years ago, I did not know it had a name, nor did I know that there were other theories (Christus Victor, etc.) out there. You don't know what you don't know, you know? I have never heard or read anyone explain forgiveness/paying a debt the way you just did, and while it makes sense, I can't help but struggle with all of it. PSA *is* a very narrow view of things, but I wonder if there isn't a bit of it that is still true. I used to wonder, as a child, how Jesus could have died "for my sins" when I wasn't alive yet to commit them (I was a very literal, logical child). I think this was one barrier to faith for me, even though I had prayed "the prayer" many times, so I could be safe from going to hell. I also didn't feel like God loved me, even though that's what I was told. Fast forward to my early 30s, and I was at work one day, listening to Chuck Swindoll, and I can't even tell you what he was saying, but suddenly I felt as if a knife had plunged into my soul. I was walking from my desk to my lab bench and it literally stopped me in my tracks. "My sin, it was MY sin... I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry" was all I could say. Then sometime soon after I heard an illustration that Erwin Lutzer used to describe what faith is (which I had never really understood). He said to imagine a man walking a narrow mountain path, slipping and falling and grabbing onto a tree root. Now he's hanging there over a sheer drop, can't let go, can't climb up. Hopeless, but hanging on. An angel appears and says, "Do you believe I can save you?" and he sees the strength and power of this being and says, "yes." "Do you believe I *will" save you?" -- and he sees the love in the angel's eyes, and he says, "yes." The angel says, "then let go of the branch." That is faith - to let go of trying to do/be/perform in such a way as to save yourself, because you can't. And I finally understood. So, you see, my journey has included an understanding that repentance (turning from) my sin is important, because sin and evil cost Jesus his life, and having faith that He will forgive me (and I know He loves me), and that I can just let go of trying so hard, is necessary. I don't know if my rambling story makes any sense. I can see your point though, and I will keep thinking about it. Thank you.
Psychologists talk about the decision to forgive vs. actually having forgiven. Someone can say (decide) “I forgive you” without yet having done what it takes to actually forgive. In some of the “heroic” examples of forgiveness, I wonder if we’re observing a decision, but assuming we’re observing the end of a process (rather than the beginning of one).
Thank you for this post. Parts of it were triggering for me, though. Too many times, survivors are pressured to forgive their abusers and maintain the status quo. What about accountability, safety, and boundaries?